G4 AGP 450 mhz, OS X, and OS 9.2.2 revisited-HELP

Go Figure........I left it alone all night after spending all day futzing with it. I left it so that it might boot to OS 9xx the next day.

Well, I let it go until about 5PM, and turned it on, expecting the worst. Lo and behold, OS9 started to boot, and actually finished. However, there was a major file missing (PMULib) so I faced the fact I had to reinstall. I dug out a copy of my 9.2.1 disk, and, LO AND BEHOLD, the disk read w. no problem, save one minor preference that wouldn't install (Date Preferences). I then updated to 9.2.2. I forgot to mention that I had two new and erased hd's in there, so I installed the OS 9xx on one of them. It boots right up, no problem. I then got courageous and installed a new OS9.2.2 on my main Mac HD that has OSXxx and OS9.2.2, doing a clean install..It works, too! Once I replaced extensions, prefs, and some music software on the separate hd, I switched to OSX, and I knew it would start right up. I really can't believe that it all worked. HOWEVER, when I changed back to OS9 from OSX I had the same temporary screen problem I was used to, but it continued to boot up.

I am not sure if the change from OSX to OS9 is different enough that it causes that strange scattered screen until if finishes, then I am good to go. When I shut down and start up again in OS9 it is like a new machine from 1998. The only thing I haven't tried is the Option key upon startup.

I thought my motherboard had finally popped a circuit, but I guess it was still all a software issue, and over the years, my OS9 got so corrupted until this happened. But I am also wondering if my motherboard is getting very hot, (or the Sonnet Processor) causing it to malfunction when switching to OS9.....it is never the other way around.

Well, I am no techie, so it has been a grueling 2 days, going trial and error, but things seem to be working.

Next, I have to make a backup of the whole thing while it is still good, for future.

I used to use a Bombich program back in 2006-08 in my computer lab to reinstall my workstations when they got corrupted, and saved me a load of grief. I guess it's off to Carbon Copy.

If anyone has any suggestions relating to the above problem/solution, I welcome it. If you are having similar headaches, I hope something I said helps.

M

Thanks for responding. Before I started my work, I cleaned up as best I could, all areas except the actual fan, which still runs fine. But that was always in the back of my mind, especially when I would be using OS 10.4.11 for a long time, then try to switch to OS9xx and it would crash. It seemed the longer I ran the computer, the harder it was to switch, and then not at all. I have been toying with the idea of putting another little fan in there somewhere close to the processor. I need to get an air can to blow out hard to reach areas, too.

I think that will be my next fix attempt. Thanks for offering, because it gives me a direction!

M

Here's what I have done: I blew/vacuumed out the machine, put new thermal paste on the processor/heatsink. The Startup Mgr(Option key) is back to working. I have a couple portable fw hd's, one with OS10.4.11 and previous backup images of my hd's. So I made a img of my hd that has only OS9.2.2 and music software, and then my main hd w. both OSX and OS9 and other files(20+gigs compressed!)

So now if things crash I should be able to get back pretty quickly this time.

But, I still have the issue when I change startup disc from OSX to OS9 on the other hd, or on the main hd. I still get the screen disruption, and the longer I am in OSX, the more trouble it has switching, and even freezes, then I try it several times. I have a feeling if I was on OSX for more than 20 min, it would just freeze, so the suspicion of a heat issue might still be a problem. My case fan is working fine.

Once it has started up in OS9, and I either restart or shut down/start up, it starts up fine, no screen problems. I am wondering if the switch from monitor settings in OSX to OS9 are part of it, because the screen looks like a really messed up, enlarged OS9 screen (on drugs) until it kicks in, becomes the normal screen, and finished booting up. I am wondering if it boots, but the screen extensions have trouble, or if there is something in the motherboard that is starting to overheat/ not work properly. Like I said, once I am in OS9 it seems to be fine, and I can read my older OS9 disks, my fw hard drives, etc. and can use the startup mgr (option key).

I am seeing mother boards like mine on Ebay for about 50-60$....I am thinking it might be worth it to have a back up motherboard, because pretty soon there won't be any to salvage.

Thoughts anyone? I am going to keep it going as long as possible, because my music software works in OS9, and I am not spending 5-10,000 for new computers, gear, and software.

Hi, BDAqua:

I just did your suggestion. The same thing happens: while in OSX under the new user w. administrator abilities, I went to System Pres/startupdisc/ and selected the separate HD with OS922 on it, and on restart, it begins normally, then the screen goes crazy, showing a very messed up version of the OS922 background, then in 3-4 seconds it clears up and finishes. If I work in OSX for a long time and try to switch, many/most times it will freeze upon restart into OS922. This happens whether I select the OS922(Classic) on the same hd as OSX or select the separate hd. I still get the same problem.

The OS9ss on both hd's is a fresh install from disks. The OS10.4.11 is not, though. I suppose the only possibility left would be to do a fresh install of OS922 and OS 10.4.11 and see if that takes care of it. If it doesn't, then as long as it finishes booting up in OS922 I can live with the temporary screen thing.

If I do this, and there is no change, still same problem, do you think the motherboard could be a source of this?

I am also using an HP 26 " lcd monitor, not an Apple Monitor, but I don't remember having problems when I started using it.

I will do a fresh install and then get back to here.

Thanks for the suggestion about temperature running OSX.

Here is what I have done all yesterday:

Since the computer was starting up fine, I decided to do a clean install of my main HD. I used my portable hd w. OS 10.4.11 to wipe the drive clean, repair, etc. Then:

1. installed OS9.2.1 no problem, installed OS 9.2.2 update, no problem. Started up normally.

2. installed OS 10.4.11 and all updates. No apparent problem. Had to install a newer version of Itunes, added my music library, all working okay. I reinstalled my specific software, including Photoshop and Finale, which have never caused any problems for years.

3. After being in OSX for so long, I tried switching back to OS9.2.2

The problem is there again. Earlier in the evening when I switched, it changed, but the screen messed up, then cleared up and finished. However, at the end of the evening, after going back into OSX, and switching, I got my dreaded grey screen with a grid. I just shut it down and stopped for the evening, frustrated. I left it to start up in the morning in OS9.2.2

4. This AM (9AM) I started it, and (I noticed there was no startup sound) got the same grey screen with grid. I tried restarting using my OS 10.4.11 disc, and it started up fine, and I switched to start up in OSX, all started up fine, BUT I still noticed I now have no startup "sound" like I did yesterday after all the new reinstalls. I changed the monitor resolution to a lesser one in case the monitor res. was too high for the OS9 change (though I never had the problem before). Then I switiched back to startup with OS9.2.2

I still got the grey screen w. grid. I tried restarting several times, and once it started to boot, but then the screen went crazy again and froze. I tried again and it went back to the grey screen w. grid. And, no startup sound anymore at all this AM. Yesterday, every time I restarted I got the startup sound, but not now.

When I had OS 9 only, all was good, and when I reinstalled OSX and other software, it was good. But somewhere down the line, the longer I was in OS10.4.11 I started having the problems, and now can't get into OS 9.

For George, I had put new thermal paste on the day before. Also, before I started this thread, I had taken any and all extra pci cards and tried w. the bare bones G4, but still got the screen.

So, somehow, being in OSX for so long screws up the ability to change to OS9, AND I have lost the standard startup sound.

Since the screen works perfectly fine in OSX, I don't think it is the video card, so I am left with the heat issue and the motherboard as the sources of the problem, right?

As it stands right now, I can boot up in OSX, but not in OS 9.2.2, and I have lost the startup sound since yesterday, after reinstalling OSX + updates.

I just now switched out my Sonnet processor and put back the original G4 450 mhz processor, but there is no difference, I still get the grey screen, no startup sound.

This so frustrating because it was all working so well yesterday, startup sound and all, until later in the evening, after working in OSX for so long. Now I am right back where I started from.

If you have time, I added a post about what I did all day/eve yesterday. It started out great, OS 9 working perfectly, installing OSX, added my specialized software (Finale), upgrading Itunes and adding my library of music, repaired disk and permissions, made a backup image using my other portable, and around 10:30 PM last night, I tried switching to OS9, and got the grey screen with a grid....right back to where I started from. I just shut it all down for the night

This AM, I I tried booting in OS9, same as last night. I switched out the Sonnet Processor w. the orig. 450 mhz processor, No change.

I cleaned the Sonnet processor and put fresh thermal paste on. this is about 2 hrs later, I boot up, and somehow the screen came up, messed up, then finished booting in OS9....jeez. I shut it down, and immediately started it back up trying to make it freeze, and the Startup sound was there, it booted in OS9 no problem, and no screen problem! I showered and left it on, then just came back, shut it down, and immediately booted it up, got the startup sound, and it booted seamlessly in OS9.

So, this leads me to these possibilities:

1. running in OSX for a long time (1+ hours) and then trying to switch to OS9 doesn't work, screen freezes, bootup in OS9 appears not to happen.

2. Leaving it overnight and then some, I could boot up in OS9, first the screen problem, but after that, I chould shut down and restart, and OS9 boots up flawlessly, with startup sound, no screen problem: Same Sonnet processor.

3. Is it the OSX software causing the problems, or does running in OSX cause too much heat problem with the processor or board? My screen works fine with OSX, so I am assuming the video card is okay. None of my other ATA cards, USB cards, or Stealth serial port cause any problem, I eliminated them last week when this all started.

4. I just bought a used board on Ebay, so I will try that.

Past: in the past I never experienced this problem until about 3-4 years ago. I noticed every once in awhile I would have trouble going into OS9. But gradually the problem has gotten worse and worse. Even with a complete clean install of all system software, and two other softwares, I have the same problem, almost immediately.

Maybe running the OSX is finally becoming too much for the board? I have had this setup since about 2002.

M

I just installed Temperature Monitor in OSX

I get three readings for three hds: 102°, 93°, 95°

The highest one is the one with only OS9.2.2 and it is not being used right now, funny it is the highest

15 min: flucuating up to 104, 97,95

Seems to be within these ranges:

102-104

93-97

95-97

This seems to be the average temp so far.

What is strange is that the main hd with both OSX and OS9, which I am running from, doesn't seem to have a sensor. It is in the standard position.

I don't know suggested limits.

Yes, Fahrenheit. I can't find any way to find a sensor that reads the CPU temp. I think it is too old to have one, or an MPU card. They only talk about Intel based G5's with MPU cards or other abilities. They talk about older Macs with an inferior TAU sensor, but that's about it.

Currently:

111

100

102

I have switched back and forth a couple of times, and the screen messes up, but recovers and continues booting to OS9

Once it boots, it has continued to reboot in OS with the startup sound.

By the way, thanks for spending so much time with me on this, I know it's a very old machine.